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STILL on MacSoft's website:
"But wait, as the commercial says, there's more. We here at MacSoft plan to bring the Neverwinter Nights? Toolset to OS X as well, allowing you to design adventures from scratch! MacSoft is working with an award-winning Mac OS X developer to put these powerful tools in your hands."

I wonder if NWN will be like Myth III and promise the toolset on the box even though MacSoft knows the toolset's not in there. There are plenty of other places to spend my time and money. MacSoft just lost the little bit that I had considered spending on them.

- Jasen.

OK now I'm really angry! I REALLY wanted that Toolset but when they weren't gonna ship it I was OK because I was gonna be able to buy it in stores instead of waiting six weeks for and internet order like most Mac games because Bioware was gonna make it a hybrid Mac/PC CD but then MacSoft came along and said they were gonna port the toolset NOW THAT MADE ME ANGRY i couldn't get the game in stores anymore but i calmed down eventually because I wanted the Toolset BUT THIS IS THE ****ING LAST STRAW MACSOFT!!! THE MAC PORT WAS 95% DONE WHEN MACSOFT TOOK THE PORT OVER AND WAS SUPPOSED BE INCLUDED IN THE PC BOX BY THE END OF THE SUMMER AND SIX MONTHS LATER THE GAME STILL ISN'T DONE AND I CAN NO LONGER GET THE TOOLSET. GOOD THING SAFARI HAS A BUG REPORT BUTTON BECAUSE I'M GONA REPORT THE BIGGEST BUG OF THEM ALL...MAC GAMING!!!!!! SCREW THIS I'M GOING BACK THE XBOX!

Well since my "offensive language" apairently sh.tcanned my earlier comment, let me rephrase my post.

If Al thinks he can get away with exactly 2 posts over a period of 6 months and then pop out and say... "sorry no tools" at the last second then shame on him. Realy. He needs a time out. He should be sent to his room so he can think about his actions. And then when he's come to a realization that perhaps being open (rather than deceptive) with his potential client base is the best policy, it should be about time for another time out. Macsoft will have folded by then. Good luck Al! Ge I hope all these comments haven't hurt your self esteme.

A..h.le

And Omni, well I can understand why you would have such a hard time with the port, I mean ofter all youve put 5 odd years into your HTML rendering engine ony to give up and go with Konquorer. Makes sense. Best of Luck with that.

Hows that IMG? Not too foul for you?

1. When NWN for mac ships, thousands of maps will be available already.

2. Just go to a friend and design your map there, or buy used PC parts for $200

3. If you got no friends that have a PC and some spare GUI-time (while encoding DVDs or something) then JUST FORGET ABOUT IT AND PLAY PEN & PAPER!
the price will be about the same for sourcebooks and stuff.

4. Many of you would be disappointed about the toolset anyways...
I very much liked the idea of a simple to use toolset, but what i've seen about it, it's far away from "create Roleplaying Worlds in Real-Time".
There isn't even the possibility to place "a weapon smith, level X", instead you have to select every single item he has in store... nothing to randomize such things.

I wonder if the linux toolset port is dead too?
Why doesn't Bioware release the toolset code as opensource and let some else do the work?

At least then there maybe some chance of a toolset... This would have been an excellent game but without the toolset its just another game.

I may buy it but only if and when the price is right unless by some wonder the toolset comes with it.

Apple needs to make its own game division and put a end to half game companies.

Yes you idiots, Mac porting companies live to screw us over. They love overpromising and underdelivering. To them, there is nothing like cancelling games, releasing buggy and featureless games. Think about that.

Bioware and macsoft have lost my support.. Bioware for not doing things right in the first place and Macsoft for not admitting they couldn't do it in the first place.
Its rather convenient Bioware set Macsoft up as there patsy.

I for one will not ever buy bioware or macsoft products again..

I have personally been adamant from the beginning of this unfortunate turn of events that, without the toolset, the game holds little interest for me. To me, the toolset was the reason to buy the game (and in Canada, $80 is steep to buy half a product compared to the PC counterpart). If the toolset does get ported eventually, I'll buy it. But unless that happens, I'll spend my money on a complete A-List title. I have a wide enough selection that I don't NEED NeverWinter Nights. Dungeon Seige looks like a decent replacement for my buying dollar. Sorry MacSoft. I like you guys, but this is one sale that was as lost as the Mac Toolset port.

are PCs cheap? 300 dollars? i'm a multi-thousand dollar in debt collage student, do you think i can afford that? i've barely been able to scrap together enough money to buy the game.

this wouldnt be such a big deal if i hadnt told all my PC using friends to buy the game because it was coming out for mac too. myself being the group DM and resident level editor.

I will buy this game on one condition...
if some sypathetic PC user would make a module which has the game developers responsible for this mess in it. That way I can hunt them down. I would use a nasty Half-Orc Barbarian to beat on them.

I would buy the game for that pleasure alone.

this was going to be the one game I wanted in 2002 (after warcraft III, which was just to waste time waiting for NWN) without the toolset it is half a game, the half a game will be decent, it does have the DM capability, it does have the ability to run mod's I will probably buy the game anyways, if it isn't priced the same as the PC version was when it was new, but I was yet another mac user that was planning on writing modules, and yes I've done this kind of thing before. I will not waste money on building a pc for this specific purpose (a cheap PC is still more money than I have available, I bought a used mac, and have slowly been upgrading it) plus building a pc would then require maintaining it.

I'm one of those hard-core gamers who buy games twice. I bought it for the PC to play at work (I'm a Mac man, but I really wanted to play NWN now!!) and was...let me emphasise this...WAS going to buy it for the Mac. Without the toolset, why bother? I was very excited to build my own levels and was planning on buying the book that tells you how to. But, you know what, I'm beyond ticked off and I'll just go back to the other companies who care and are upfront with the Mac community. I hope you people realize how many sales you're losing by holding the truth back.

nwn was not delayed nor ever stated to be delayed because of the toolset.

if nwn comes out at 2/3 the price it was when it debuted on the pc, i might go ahead and buy it. it does come with its mediocre (from all accounts i've read) campaign and the DM tool which can't even make a +1 magic ring of bitching for a player (need editor for that).

why not sell the game for $39 and sell the belated toolset for $19?

Sure. Why not?
I have made maps with StarEdit for my friends and I to play. I've also made goodies with Fear & Loathing.
I've even played with the clunky editor for WC3.

Perhaps I'm just that less then 1% percent whiny fool. But I was annoyed when the editors for UT never showed up. I never got a chance to show people what I could do.
Now there will be no editor for this game. And yes it IS the game. The package game is not what I call super. I played a friends copy. The ability to make your own modules is where it was at for me.
I don't think I would have been half as annoyed if MacSoft had told us from the beginning that there were some issues with the toolset port. But they didn't.
This should have been given to Westlake Interactive. They would have at least been on the level with us.

Upsetting yes. Canceling my pre-order? Yes definately, I am going to do that too... don't want a half working game with no sign of the other half coming in the future. What I find utterly stupid, is they dont even CONSIDER to continue development of the toolset as a seperate download later for registered owners. Ya know? HELLO!? *duh*

really great job lads :(


i thought it was only the toolset delaying the release? now im really pissed. as the single player isnt THAT good (played the pc.version a long time), this game is rendered useless to me.

will cancel my pre-order :(

For me, Mac was crushed as a gaming platform in the span of two weeks. It's just not that both ToB and NWN toolset aren't going to be released, it's the way both these announcements were handled. I'm going to go for the cheap gaming PC approach and stop my 15-year patronage of Mac games. Enjoy,

N

Yes...the toolset is cool. I've been to Bioware and seen it first hand, and I really wish it would have made it to the Mac. But it's not the end of the world.

I realize there is some disappointment about this decision, but to claim that the game is now "useless" without a toolset that perhaps 1% of NWN gamers would have actually ever used is ridiculous. It's just a level editor, and believe me, people hardly ever use level editors! I seriously doubt any of the people complaining here today have ever actually designed a level for a game. How many of you ever cracked open StarEdit and made StarCraft levels? Who among you ever ran Fear and/or Loathing and made Myth II levels?

The GAME is the GAME, not the level editor. The game remains the same, and it's a wonderful one. It's not at all like "playing Baldur's Gate over and over", and if you don't even understand that much, you don't know the first thing about the game -- and thus have no business complaining about the level editor for it!

i so lost all hope of this game that this doesnt shock me or bother me at all. after halo ive lost all hope, bungie shows halo running on a g4 years ago, now they act as if it was originally and Only ment to run on the xbox, and now they have to redo the whole game to run on the mac... NWN was touted to be all platforms(even BEos!!!!) then, windows only... what is it now a year delay and we get just the game no thing else? why bother, and why bother buying a pee-cee and playing an old game now wait for the sequel instead. or go buy some good ole pen and paper games and to hell with them all.

The "game" was the toolset otherwise why not just play Baldurs gate over and over and over.
The toolset was what made the game unique if they sell it I hope its not $50.00 for a stripped down version.
At least maybe you can network games on the PC and still serve from MAC?

watch this and find out:

http://homepage.mac.com/themotleyfool/macsoft/iMovieTheater11.html

i'll buy if the game is priced according to how old it is and the fact a portion of the game is missing.
if the game comes on sale for $50, then i need to take away Al's cack pipe.

apple needs to get on the damn horn and figure pout a way to make game development easier, not just 'more compatible". this is f'ing b.s. gaming on themac is goddamned sad. I love my macs, all htree of em, but ill be damned if i dont have a radeon 9700 ans some game editors soon, im giving up on mac gaming. can u imagine when we['ll be gettng unreal 2? can u say next summer?

f mac gaming.......after unreal, im f'ing done.

[ed. More A-titles than ever. More cool hardware than ever. I think you like being sad.]

Unless I'm hallucinating here, I seem to remember that Bioware had a MacOS version of the client ready to go back when they released the PC version. The only reason that Macsoft got involved -- and things were delayed for months -- is because they were going to port the toolset.

So we've just lost months for no appreciable gain.

And yes, NWN is mostly useless without the toolset. The whole point of NWN is that it's like pen-n-paper Dungeons and Dragons and you can have a DM who creates (toolset) and runs (DM client) the world for players (Player client).


[ed. You are hallucinating. It was not ready w/ the PC version.]

Macsoft site says now game will be released summer/fall with toolset. So which source is right?

[ed. The MacSoft site hasn't been updated since late Summer. We updated today. Take your pick. Also note this crutial line from their site: "pending review of Toolset code"]

"AND WHY TF CAN'T THE EDITOR BE RELEASED AS FREEWARE LATER?"

Who's going to pay for that year of programmers time?

What annoys me is the misleading stuff that the developers of this game have posted. If you look at the Neverwinternights site you will see that this is what they posted YESTERDAY:

Updated: Jan 6 2003

This is where you can find out everything you need to know about the Macintosh version of the Neverwinter Nights client and server. Currently the Mac version is in full development. The Mac version of the Toolset is being handled by MacSoft. You can find an update from Al Schilling from MacSoft here.


When you follow the provided link you find that Al reports: "I can tell you that we still intend to bring the toolset to Mac. I am trying to finalize budget approvals and the development contract, but work is already well under way with the port."

If they still have 6 months then that's not what I call "well under way"

Al goes on to say: "There is still the slight possibility of a major roadblock preventing the toolset port, but I'm confident that won't happen.

Several people in our office have been playing NWN and working with the toolset, and I've got to say that we are more excited than ever to bring this title to Mac users."

Guess he was blowin smoke...

[ed. That was NOT posted yesterday. It was posted 6 months ago.]

Not to stop anyone from posting about how many times they won't buy the game, just a couple points...

* The issue of releasing it later is not just about delaying the full game. It's also the fact that -- once the porting company got an actual look at the code -- they up'd their estimate from a couple of months to at least six. Six full months (or more) of a developer's time does not equal freeware.

* Do keep in mind there are many many extra modules (beyond the original game) available for download now. In addition, BioWare is putting out expansions themselves, all of which are Mac-compatible.

Resume the love...

Without the toolset the game is useless.

This is pretty crappy. if they were serious about customer satisfaction, they would have just kept the Toolset in development after releasing the game. And misspelling isn't hard to do, especially when typing quickly. It's the content that counts, and I think he's right. Just because PCs are cheap, doesn't mean we should have them. They're still bad.

>
Then buy the Mac version of NWN and deal with it, you stupid whining idiot! If you don't want a PC, then deal with shortcomings like NWN toolset. BTW, you spelled BUY wrong, dumbass.

Sorry guys I do not want half a game....

Geez, Mac gamers should be happy just to get the damn game. If you want the toolset, then buy $300 worth of PC parts and build a gaming rig like I did. Macs may be pricey but I still love my dual 1GHz Mac. But if I want to use a PC, I just hop on over to my high powered but cheap PC. There's no excuse these days in not owning a Windows box when you can build one so inexpensively.

No money for BioWare for a long time from me over this debacle. It's their own fault. They deserve to get screwed, and I hop they lose every dime they spent on the port. Hell, how much are they making off the linux port again?

Guess I won't get the Mac version then, I'll stick with the Windows one, no point for me to fork out the money again if I'm not going to get the toolset....(bought the windows version before I had bought my mac btw)

You losers. I will be enjoying the game. I could care less about the NWN Toolset.

guess i'll not be buying NWN

I understand the financial difficulties here, and it makes sense for the company to not port the toolset. But hell, I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't just buy a cheap gaming pc...

I won't buy NWN without the toolset. The toolset makes the game!!